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AP Interview with Dr. George Habash | |
|---|---|
| Author | George Habash |
| Spoken on | 1984-11-27 |
| Type | Interview |
| Source | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPermjwVKxM |
Interviewer:
We are starting doctor, yeah. I'm sorry about this delay
Dr. George Habash:
It's alright.
Interviewer:
Ok fine. Dr. Habash, could you tell me how serious you consider the division within the PLO to be now?
Habash:
Of course I have to confess that it is rather serious. But, in spite of this, we are still raising the slogan for one united PLO. There will be many difficulties, serious difficulties, but we have to overcome it. There is no other way but to overcome it. Because it's so dangerous that our people will be split while fighting against Zionism and against Israel.
Interviewer:
How much damage do you think that the holding of the PNC and Arafat's move has done to the PLO?
Habash:
It was very, very serious. Very serious, because it has a very clear political content. It means that Arafat is deciding or rather deciding to have a close alliance with Camp David regime and Reagan's regime in the Jordan, and as you know comrade, neither Camp David nor Reagan fulfilled what our people really want. And that is why it is a serious thing. Also from an organizational point of view, as you know that the PLO is rather a wide front that contains within it, within its frame, all classes, all organizations, all national personalities. The wide frame, what is happening in Amman, you cannot call that it is the PNC, it is Arafat's conference rather than the conference of all the groups that represent the Palestinian people. Besides this, we can say that it is really illegal from the point of view of the internal regulations of the PNC.
Interviewer:
Do you really believe though that Arafat is putting himself in the 'American camp' as you put it? Because that would surely make him a traitor in your eyes.
Habash:
To a great extent, yes. In an indirect manner, not in a direct manner, because America is still refusing him. He is putting himself in the American way through King Hussein and through Hosni Mubarak. This is very clear to our people and this is one of the main causes for what is happening in the PLO.
Interviewer:
What sort of future do you see for Arafat and his PLO if he goes ahead with the 'American way' as you put it?
Habash:
If he continues in this way I think the Palestinian people will not in any way accept Arafat to continue as the head of the PLO, and I think that we will have a united PLO without Arafat and without his line.
Interviewer:
Do you not think perhaps that the Palestinian people want peace?
Habash:
A just peace, of course. But any peace, Israeli peace, no. I think our Palestinian people are ready to continue to continue fighting for one more hundred years to have their own right in self-determination and establishing their state. Otherwise there will be no peace.
Interviewer:
When you talk of fighting are you still commited to what you call 'revolutionary violence', what some in the Western, we in the West call 'terrorism'.
Habash:
No, not terrorism, armed struggle. Armed struggle to have our national rights. And the regulations of the United Nations give us the right to use such armed struggle in order to fulfill our national aims. You are mistaken if you regard our fighting as terrorism. This is the great fault of American administrations.
Interviewer:
Does the split within the PLO make the use of violence by some who oppose Arafat inevitable now? Does the split within the PLO, does it mean that some will now turn back to violence? 'Revolutionary violence', 'terrorism', call it what you will.
Habash:
Against Israel, if you mean increased armed struggle, certainly. And we are planning to increase our armed struggle against the Israeli forces in the West Bank, the Israeli forces in Gaza, against Israel in general. But if you mean violence against Palestinian groups, no, we are against this and we want to prevent it.
Interviewer:
Doctor, do you ever see peace with Israel? Because clearly there are some within the PLO who do.
Habash:
We see in the very distant future peace in Palestine, where all sects, Jews, Arabs will live in peace. It's very difficult to have peace with Zionism because Zionism, as it proved itself on the ground here to our people, we can not live with it as the European people were not able to live with Fascism and with Naziism. It's very difficult, we have seen it, we can not live with Zionism. Zionism is Fascism exactly.
Interviewer:
But do you ever see in your heart, do you ever see compromise, peace with Israel? I'm still not clear on that, whether you actually believe it's possible.
Habash:
Israel is the embodiment of Zionism. Till the present moment, till the present moment, it is the embodiment of Zioniosm. We are ready to have peace if we can get rid of Zionism, Zionistic ideology, Zionistic plans.
Interviewer:
How do you explain Arafat's thinking today? I mean you know him terribly well. You've been together over a number of years. How do you explain what he's doing and where you think he's going?
Habash:
Arafat, gives very much importance to tactics. When we were out of Beirut, Arafat thought that the whole area fell in the hands of, the United States and that is why, he has to arrange himself according to this formula. He does not give great importance to the Palestinian masses, to the Palestinian organizations who want to know where we are going. This is a great fault of Arafat, and through his contacts with Fahd and all the reactionary rulers, Arab rulers, he is more affected by what they say, more than he's affected by the Palestinian masses.
Interviewer:
Do you think that he's betrayed in the-
Habash:
Excuse me?
Interviewer:
Do you think that he's betrayed the Palestinians in any way?
Habash:
Let us not talk about betrayal. Let us talk about the political line he is following at the present moment, which is very wrong and so dangerous and which will not fulfill our national aims. I am afraid that Arafat, after four or five years, will discover that he lost the faith of the Palestinian masses without getting anything from his coalition, if I'm using the right word, the coalition with King Hussein and Hosni Mubarak.
Interviewer:
One final question and a very personal question. Looking back, Dr. Habash, do you ever question the revolutionary violence of the past? I mean you said that you're planning to increase attacks now against Israel. Does that mean you would consider returning to the days of the early 70s, where the armed struggle and revolutionary violence, what we again call terrorism, for want of a better phrase, could be used again as a weapon?
Habash:
Please, please, make it clear that there is a very clear difference between what you call terrorism and what we call armed struggle to have, to fulfill, our national aims. Allow me to say that I do not like your mixing between armed struggle and terrorism. If you mean armed struggle, we have to increase it, we are planning to increase it. Terrorism is something else.
Interviewer:
But do you see a return to attacks against Israeli targets? You say that you're planning to increase attacks. Are we going to return to the days of attacks against Israeli targets?
Habash:
This is our job, to return to strike Israeli targets in the West Bank, in Gaza, in Palestine. We regard it as a right for us. The United Nations regulations give the conquered people the full right to struggle against the conquerors in all means, including armed struggle.
Interviewer:
What do you think it achieves?
Habash:
You said this is the final question. In spite of this I will answer this question as a final question. What is the question now?
Interviewer:
What do you think that it achieves? What do you think it will achieve, attacks against Israel?
Habash:
It achieves very much because in the very long run the Israeli people will recognize that without giving the Palestinian people their rights, there will be no peace. And I don't think that the Jews in Palestine are ready to continue losing their sons day after day, as is happening at the present moment in South Lebanon.
Interviewer:
Dr. Habash, thank you very much.